The church's reversal still "makes allowance for ministers and parishes to make their own decision around this. It has about 196,308 members. A minister from the Netherlands, Dirk Van der Hoff, went to the Transvaal in 1853 and became the first minister of the newly established Dutch Reformed Church (NHK), which became the state church of the South African Republic in 1860. This and other churches from the Dutch Reformed Church officially became an indigenous, independent Reformed church in 1792, which is now known as the Reformed Church in America (RCA). The 1986 General Synod confirmed that homosexual sex and homosexual relationships are sinful, but declared that homosexuals may use the Lord's Supper and may become elders, deacons or pastors, if they are otherwise eligible. Soon after Calvinism came to the Lowlands , in the middle of the sixteenth century, the first steps were taken towards the organization of Reformed … Collection of Dutch Reformed Church Records for Namibia which includes baptisms, marriages, and membership records. All of us have definite opinions about what ministers should wear, and usually these opinions are influenced by what garments had status at an earlier time in … The Dutch Reformed Church would also to invite the Minister of Basic Education to feel free in interacting with the Dutch Reformed Church in regard to comments made in this submission. Some members of the Dutch Reformed Church (DRC) are up in arms because it has officially received permission from the minister of Home Affairs to solemnise same-sex couples. U.S., Dutch Christian Reformed Church Vital Records, 1856-1970 The Christian Reformed Church was organized in 1857, and you’ll find more than a century’s worth of birth, marriage, and death details on members in these records. One result of the revival was that many young men felt called to the ministry, and a seminary was opened at Stellenbosch. There are ten synods, whose borders roughly resemble those of the provinces of South Africa plus Namibia. Although the parish church was the focal point, the members were spread across the city and did not form distinct Dutch enclaves, like the Reformed Dutch. About South Africa, Dutch Reformed Church Registers, 1660-1970 . The Nederduits in the denomination's Afrikaans name refers to the old nomenclature for the Dutch language, formerly written as Nederduitsch in Dutch. Dominantie, onderdanigheid en pijn... maken deel uit van het trainingsproces. At first there were no ordained ministers from the Netherlands but only a sick comforter. The Dutch Reformed Church has about a million members, but I can say with safety that fewer than half of them are active congregants. Reformed Church in America, church that developed from the Dutch settlements in New Netherlands (New York) in the 17th century. The intricate details and the mammoth work these churches must have taken at the time they were built is … Significant, too, is that instruction in the parish school was in English, not Dutch, and the Mass was celebrated in Latin. When the Dutch settled in South Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries they transplanted their Dutch Reformed theology to the African continent. The Reformed Church in Zambia grow out of the mission work of the Dutch Reformed Church of the Orange Free State, South Africa started in the end of the 19th century. DUTCH REFORMED CHURCH VERGESIG.....First Applicant. #115154524 - Dutch Reformed Church (Hervormde Kerk) in Den Hoorn on the Dutch.. Milestone decisions about homosexuality were taken in 1967, 1982, 1986, 2004, 2015, 2016 and 2019. Records of the Reformed Dutch church of Oyster Bay, L.I., 1741-1835; the Wolver Hollow Church Item Preview 84 of 1996) and the Employment of Educators Act, 1998 (Act No. Originating in the 17th century from the Dutch Reformed Church of the Netherlands, the NGK is the largest denomination within South Africa's Dutch Reformed tradition. Andrew Murray Jr, D.F. The first Dutch Reformed Church building in Botswana was constructed in 1877 by Rev. (0.03 km) Parfait at Ryneveld Street (0.03 km) Parfait at Koetsiershuis (0.03 km) Parfait at Koetsiershuis (0.03 km) Parfait at Village Museum; View all hotels near Dutch Reform Church … In November 2015, the decision was suspended, initially to be discussed again at the 2017 General Synod. In 1867, the name was changed to the Reformed Church in America. Original data: South Africa, Dutch Reformed Church Registers, 1660-1970. The church's current decision on abortion was taken at the 1994 General Synod. A consistory was formed but was still subject to the control of the classis (presbytery) of Amsterdam. The 1982 General Synod declared that homosexual sex is sinful and that homosexuals may not participate in the Lord's Supper or become elders, deacons or pastors, regardless of whether they have sex. After consultation with experts, including medical experts, the synod decided to base their stance on abortion solely on the Bible and not on medical evidence or on a list of exceptions. The Dutch Reformed Churches Union Act Repeal Act, 2008 of the Parliament of South Africa[8] has one of its objectives as to "remove obstacles in the unification process of the Verenigende Gereformeerde Kerk, Reformed Church of Africa and the Dutch Reformed Churches without legislative intervention". Dutch Reformed Church (DRC) Collection. The "De Wolf" group of Protestant Reformed Churches formed after Rev. An evangelical revival led by Andrew Murray tipped the balance away from theological liberalism. Calvinism (also called the Reformed tradition, Reformed Christianity, Reformed Protestantism, or the Reformed faith) is a major branch of Protestantism that follows the theological tradition and forms of Christian practice set down by John Calvin and other Reformation-era theologians. The colony had expanded a long way beyond the Cape Peninsula in the preceding two centuries, both to the north and the east, and on the eastern frontier the Dutch farmers came into contact with Xhosa-speaking cattle herders. Provo, UT, USA: Operations, Inc., 2014. It also has a presence in neighbouring countries, such as Namibia, Swaziland, and parts of Botswana, Zimbabwe and Zambia. I am trying to find out about it for my coursework and the internet is so confusing I can't find anything about what it actually believes etc. Because the NGK was seen by the trekkers as being an agent of the Cape government, they did not trust its ministers and emissaries seeing them as part of the British Empire's attempts to annex the Boer Republics. Similar Images . This page was last edited on 2 January 2021, at 08:18. First Netherlands Reformed Congregation, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Add to Likebox #108371174 - blur in south africa old church in city center of reinet graaf.. The complex consists of the church and attached Sunday School building. [31], Media related to Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk churches in South Africa at Wikimedia Commons, Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk churches in South Africa, Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa (NHK), Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa, "Overview of the worldwide reformed church", "Dutch Reformed Church in S. Africa OKs Integration", Dutch Reformed Churches Union Act Repeal Act, No. African evangelists played a significant role … Jan van Riebeeck formally established the Dutch Reformed Church (DRC) of South Africa in 1652. The church was built in 1847 and is situated on the main road running through the town. From its beginning in 1628 until 1819, it was the North American branch of the Dutch Reformed Church.. The first British occupation was temporary, but in 1806 a long-term occupation was undertaken. The frontier farmers did not like the way the government in Cape Town handled the situation, and the ending of slavery in 1834 was another bone of contention. The Dutch Reformed Church in Swellendam is famed to be the most photographed church in South Africa. In 1819, it was known as the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. Dominance, subservience, and pain are integral parts of the training process. Churches listed in italic type were once members of the URC but are no longer listed as members. When the English seized the colony in 1664, … As do the colonial mansions, cottages, and terraces that line the pretty, cobbled streets with their shuttered windows, fading pastel facades and fancy verandas, although these are now mostly home to boutique hotels rather … It contains 106 congregations with a total membership of approximately 22,500. No need to register, buy now! Strydom, but also with references to Johannes du Plessis and G.B.A. The church supported the system of apartheid, which institutionalized separation and stratification of the people of South Africa according to race. For the next century, the colony would be under British control. Historic American Buildings Survey R. Merritt Lacey, Photographer May 3, 1939 EXTERIOR - FRONT DOOR DETAIL - Reformed Church of English Neighborhood, Edgewater Avenue, Ridgefield, HABS NJ,2-RIDG,1-4.tif 3,682 × 5,000; 17.56 MB God bless you. Persecution of Churchmen and Other Religious Workers Oppressed to Apartheid Use, by Kenneth N. Carstens. The Dutch Reformed Church and Apartheid. An exception was eventually allowed for a Lutheran church in Cape Town (many of the company's employees were German). The office of the General Synod is in Pretoria, Gauteng Province.[2]. All the members of the Dutch Reformed Church In 1867, the name was changed to the Reformed Church in America. This valley, tightly hemmed in by mountains, is named after the French Huguenots who fled to the Cape after religious persecution in 1688. In 1995 a new center was opened in Dete.The church subscribes the Apostles Creed, Athanasian Creed, Nicene … The Dutch Reformed Church does not differ in respect of doctrine, though it does slightly differ as to the details of Church polity from the Presbyterian Churches of Scotland. This meant that members were drawn into non-Dutch parishes in their neighborhoods. There were thus now three Dutch Reformed churches in what would become South Africa—the NGK (the Cape Synod), the NHK (the state church of the South African Republic), and the GK (led by Postma). The church recognises South African civil unions, but does not regard legal marriage between homosexuals as Biblical marriage – instead, the church regards legally married homosexuals as simply having a formalised, committed sexual relationship. [13], The 2004 decision was formally withdrawn in 2015. Congregations are allowed to deny employment to married gays. Malan and J.G. This and other churches from the Dutch Reformed Church officially became an indigenous, independent Reformed church in 1792, which is now known as the Reformed Church in America (RCA). The church was organized in 1851 by members of the Bushwick Reformed Church that dates back to 1654. It contains 106 congregations with a total membership of approximately 22,500. Both the General Synod and the regional synods may pronounce an official statement on certain issues, which local church councils broadly follow. The first congregation was established in Lusaka. The 2004 decision was that homosexuality is not a deviant form of sexuality, and that homosexuals may become active members of the church (including becoming ministers). The French had occupied the Netherlands, and so the link between the church in the colony and the Amsterdam classis was broken. Verse of the day: Pastors' Corner. Dr. Benno Zuiddam), Uit die Geskiedenis van 350 Jaar NG Kerk, Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa Official Website, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,, Use South African English from August 2012, All Wikipedia articles written in South African English, Articles containing Afrikaans-language text, Wikipedia articles with WORLDCATID identifiers, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, Northern Cape Synod (northern part of the Northern Cape province, the western part of, Western Transvaal Synod (eastern part of the North West province and the southern part of the, Highveld Synod (south-eastern part of Gauteng province and south-western part of Mpumalanga province). Hubert De Wolf was deposed by the consistory of First Protestant Reformed Church, Grand Rapids, Michigan.The reason for the rift? The gables are baroque, the windows Gothic, the cupola vaguely Eastern, and the steeple extravagant. 6: NG Kerk besin oor geloof in nuwe eeu `Reik uit na armes, vlugtelinge' `Aborsie soms aanvaarbaar, Dr. Gerrie van der Merwe (Red. Please click on the links provided below for a more information about each specific area: 16: Aborsiepil is 'moord,, "Beeld Johannesburg Finaal Saterdag 11 Desember 1999 Bl. Specific proposed amendments/insertions and their implications 1. JOHANNESBURG CONGREGATION. The 1982 General Synod declared that abortion is indefensible on both Biblical and scientific grounds, and that abortion is always "the termination of a life". According to Britannica and the denomination, it was formed in North America, specifically from Dutch settlements in now modern day New York, out of the Dutch Reformed Church in Europe in the 17th century and slowly grew from there. No-one may be excluded from becoming a minister, elder or deacon owing to their sexual orientation. After various processes the Church has been accepted back into the World Alliance of Reformed Churches. The revival also led to an interest in mission work which led to the establishment of the Dutch Reformed Mission Church for coloureds and the Dutch Reformed Church in Africa for blacks. If you have the appropriate software installed, you can download article citation data to the citation manager of your choice. subsidiary church; subsidiary company; subservience in Dutch translation and definition "subservience", English-Dutch Dictionary online. The Dutch Reformed Church (Reformed Church in America) is one of the oldest Christian denominations in the world. Congregations are allowed to deviate from any of these decisions if they believe that that is what God wants. The Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa Orange Farm Central is a home to a diverse community of people, and our goal is to “Reach up to God, and reach out to You”. Find the perfect dutch reform church stock photo. During the period of Dutch sovereignty over New Netherlands, it was the established church of the colony. Soon after, in 1822, there was a small secession of churches from Classis Hackensack (a classis of the Northeastern United States). The church was semi-established, and the government helped with stipends of ministers. [30], An official publication from 1999, "Geloofsverklaring", which deals with various current issues, stated however that while abortion on demand is morally indefensible, abortion should not be denied in cases where it is the "lesser of two evils". Christian Church As the church ministers became increasingly involved in attempts to uplift the Afrikaner people, they also became politicised, and many became spokesmen for Afrikaner nationalism. No distinction was made between homosexuality and homosexual activity, as both were regarded as either a psychological illness or a deliberate decision to sin. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013. The URC was begun primarily by congregations that had left the Christian Reformed Church over the issue of women in church office, especially the offices of elder and minister of the Word. The history of the church has been very much bound with the politics of the Afrikaner community of South Africa. This applies to both homosexuals and heterosexuals. The Reformed Church in Zimbabwe was founded by Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa missionaries in 1891. The URC has been pursuing federation with the Canadian and American Reformed Churches for several years. We have family- oriented ministries dedicated to children, Teen and adults. It has three doctrinal standards: the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dordt. There were conflicts over grazing and water and cattle rustling across the frontier. Following the Anglo-Boer War (1899-1902) the NGK played an important role in reconstruction and resisting the tendency of the British rulers to anglicise the Afrikaners. Simply select your manager software from the list below and click on download. Presbyterian ministers from Scotland were encouraged to serve the needs of the Dutch Reformed Church in the Cape. Ministers from the Netherlands were not as willing to serve in what was now for them a foreign country, and the British authorities were not keen to have them. [13], The church's previous stance on homosexuality was published in 2004, and confirmed by the 2007 and 2013 General Synods. The first Reformed congregation in North America was established in New Amsterdam (now New York City) in 1628 and continues to this day as the Collegiate Dutch Reformed Church. . By 1994, with the election of a new government and the adoption of a new constitution in South Africa, it became apparent that abortion on demand may be legalised, and the church was forced to re-examine and restate its stance. The Dutch Reformed Church is a Dutch Reformed church in Franschhoek, South Africa. The Dutch Reformed Church (Dutch: Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk, abbreviated NHK) was the largest Christian denomination in the Netherlands from the onset of the Protestant Reformation until 1930. Although the crumbling old hospital has been transformed into a series of up-scale restaurants, the Dutch Reformed Church, or Kerk, remains much as it did then. From its beginning in 1628 until 1819, it was the North American branch of the Dutch Reformed Church.. Here you’ll read the good news about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who loves you and has a good plan for your life, a plan to give you a future and a hope. They began to engage in slave trading in Africa and also established colonies in the Americas. From 6 to 8 November 2006, 127 representatives of the GK, the Uniting Reformed Church and the Dutch Reformed Church met at Achterbergh near Krugersdorp to discuss the reunification and how this can be realized. [3] This not to be confused with the literal translation Low German, which is a dialect in the north of Germany. The Dutch Reformed Church (in Dutch: Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk or NHK) was the largest Christian denomination in the Netherlands from the onset of the Protestant Reformation until 1930. The Dutch Reformed ministers generally tried to discourage them and, as the Dutch Reformed Church was the established church of the colony, did not initially provide pastoral ministry for the emigrant farmers, who eventually formed several independent republics in present-day South Africa. The United Reformed Churches in North America (URC) was formed from churches in the Alliance of Reformed Churches on October 1, 1996 in a meeting of the Fellowship of Uniting Reformed Churches held at Lynwood, IL. As the Dutch Reformed Church solidified itself, the Dutch became a viable global commercial nation. Every four years, the 10 synods come together and meet as the General Synod. It is therefore correctly referred to as the "Dutch Reformed Church" in South Africa. We hope this site will help you know and build a relationship with him. Number of Dutch Reformed Church in each family (Nombre de personnes dans chaque famille appartenant à l’Église réformée de la Hollande) Colonne 40. The Bill proposes to amend the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No. Therefore, the current view on homosexuality of the NKG is: Progressive members of the clergy and laity have taken the denomination to court to restore the decision from 2015 and reject the reversal. Local churches are organised geographically into 146 presbyteries ("rings") which are further organized into synods. Similar Images . Pieter Brink who had joined Chief Linchwe I … The 2015 General Synod decided that sex outside of marriage is no longer sinful, as long as both partners live good Christian lives and are committed to each other. Hotels near Dutch Reformed Church: (0.13 km) Altelekker Accommodation (0.78 km) Die Plaaswerf (1.48 km) Assegaaibosch Country Lodge (15.45 km) Bishop's Cove (14.05 km) Fynbos Golf Club; View all hotels near Dutch Reformed Church on Tripadvisor Covell Avenue Netherlands Reformed Church, Grand Rapids, Michigan, United Reformed Churches in North America, The Reformed Low Dutch Church of Harlem organized 1660 : historical sketch by Tilton, Edgar. The more conservative ones (known as Doppers) were opposed to singing hymns that had not been determined to be scripturally pure in church. They are: Individual church councils may decide for themselves how specific current issues that are not dealt with in the six officially accepted confessions of faith are dealt with within the congregation. Flickr photos, groups, and tags related to the "ruwadzano" Flickr tag. Although this seemingly allowed for Anglican worship, the Cautionary Towns had been under the administration of the earl of Leicester, who favoured religious reform, so worship had generally followed the example of the Calvinist Dutch Reformed Church, the established church in the Netherlands. In recent years, there have been efforts at reuniting the various branches of South Africa's Dutch Reformed tradition. Finding no other buyers at the original asking price, two years ago the Dutch Reformed congregation sold the property to Iglasenda Antigua, Ortiz's 65-member church, for just $250,000. In October last year, the church (also known as the NG Kerk) finally agreed to be more inclusive of same-sex unions while also apologising for its past homophobic stance. The Archives of the Reformed Church in America, New Brunswick, New Jersey. . About U.S., Dutch Reformed Church Records in Selected States, 1639-1989. Eleven take Dutch Reformed Church to court over same-sex unions - MambaOnline - Gay South Africa online", "LGBTI activists face uphill battle in getting churches to see the light", "Dutch Reformed Church's decision not to recognise same-sex unions overturned | IOL News", "Court says Dutch Reformed Church's gay pastors can have same-sex unions", "South African court rules Dutch Reformed Church's gay marriage ban is unconstitutional", "Beeld JOHANNESBURG FINAAL Dinsdag 22 Augustus 1995 Bl. The NGK expanded from the Cape Colony, but in Natal and the two inland republics it set up separate synods that were at first loosely federated but later developed a closer relationship. Prior to 1994, the church's view on abortion was broadly aligned with South African legislation, namely that forced abortion was only acceptable if there was immediate danger to the mother's life, or if the conception was due to rape that had been reported to the police. Dutch Reformed Church Records from New Jersey. Take your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat. In 2019, a secular court overturned the 2016 decision and allowed the blessing of same-sex unions to resume.[12]. The Reformed Church in America (RCA) is a mainline Reformed Protestant denomination in Canada and the United States. The Dutch Reformed Church (Pretoria) and the Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa (Melodi ya Tshwane) in search for unity On 5 November 2017 the DRC Pretoria and the URCSA Melodi ya Tshwane publicly expressed their intention to establish a single united congregation. The Reformed Church in America (RCA) is a mainline Reformed Protestant denomination in Canada and the United States. This set a precedent for worship in the English regiments into the seventeenth century. No-one may be excluded from participation in church activities owing to their sexual orientation. Its current name is Reformed Church in America. [9], Theologically, the Dutch Reformed Church is in the Reformed branch of Protestantism. HENDRIK ABEL VAN ROOYEN ... of the Uniform Rules of Court. This collection includes church registers from South Africa. Along with the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa (NHK) and the Reformed Churches in South Africa, it is considered one of the three sister churches of South Africa. Dutch Reformed Church in Botswana, Mochudi Congregation. When an issue has a wide range of opinions, the synods and the General Synod releases "discussion documents" which are intended to move the opinion of congregations in some direction. These were segregated entirely from the white churches, but eventually united to form the Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa. Huge collection, amazing choice, 100+ million high quality, affordable RF and RM images. The Reformed faith came to the Netherlands in the 16th century. (If you're looking for the United Reformed Church in England, click here.). Established by Dutch Reformed Protestants, they originally named the church The First Dutch Reformed Church of New Hempstead (named after Hempstead, Long Island where many of the congregants moved from). The Dutch Reformed Church (Dutch: Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk, abbreviated NHK) was the largest Christian denomination in the Netherlands from the onset of the Protestant Reformation until 1930. Dutch Reformed Church, Afrikaans Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk (NGK), South African denomination that traces its beginnings to the Reformed tradition of the first white settlers who came to South Africa from the Netherlands in the mid-17th century. There are currently ministers who are openly gay or lesbian. They never fail to impress. Dutch Reformed Wiki is a FANDOM Lifestyle Community. A typical central Dutch reformed church in a small town! It was the foremost Protestant denomination, and—since 1892—one of the two major Reformed denominations along with the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands.. subservience . In a region steeped in history, Clarkstown Reformed Church has been part of the community now known as West Nyack, NY since 1750. Church councils govern local congregations. The 1994 and 1998 General Synods did not deal with the issue. Several of the republics in the land beyond the Vaal ("Transvaal") eventually merged to form the South African Republic in 1852. Number of Jews in each family (Nombre de juifs dans chaque famille) Colonne 41. He assisted in the organization of the Dutch church of the refugees from London and laid down the main lines of church polity and liturgy in his Forma ac Ratio. Andrew A. Louw begun to preach among Shona people.The worship language of churches was Afrikaans and English.Later the denomination expanded among Nyanja people. Marriage is a commitment between one man and one woman. Reformed Church Government Manual of Christian Reformed Church Government 2015 Revision 2015 (Includes 2016 Updates) ... ficially imposed on the Dutch church by King William I (1816). 390 likes. 46 of 2008, Dutch Reformed Churches Union Act Repeal Bill, "Now Dutch Reformed Church won't appeal same-sex ruling",, "Victory as NG Kerk lifts suspension of acceptance of gay unions", "A queer thing is going on in Southern Africa's churches", "It's on! Dutch involvement in the slave trade and slavery in the Americas were generally sanctioned by a majority of Reformed theologians. The church … The first official step took place in 2001 with full ecclesiastical fellowship, which allows ministers to freely move between these denominations. [16][17] The extraordinary synod reversed much of the 2015 decision officially.[18][19][20]. The Protestant Reformed Churches separated from the Christian Reformed Church in the mid-1920s. Dutch Reformed Church, Afrikaans Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk (NGK), South African denomination that traces its beginnings to the Reformed tradition of the first white settlers who came to South Africa from the Netherlands in the mid-17th century. Sex outside of marriage is sinful, and therefore gay sex is sinful. There was controversy in the Netherlands over hymn singing as well resulting in a group breaking away from the Dutch Reformed Church to form the Christian Reformed Churches. This new Church Order was viewed by some church leaders as part of a general drift toward lib- eralism and political control of the churches. too, the Dutch Reformed Church Archives in Pretoria, the Reverend A S van Dyk, moderator of the Synod of the Dutch Reformed Church of Central Africa (SMA) and the General Secretary of the SMA, the Reverend F Maritz, who showed a particular interest in the research from the beginning. [1] In 2013 it claimed 1.1 million members and 1,602 ordained ministers in 1,158 congregations.[2]. One of its features was a kind of Reformed "Lent", between Ascension Day and Pentecost, a custom that eventually spread beyond the confines of the NGK. The incident clarified one important point for me: preaching uniforms are important to all congregations—low church and high church alike. N J de Wet, on July 7, 1923. 391 likes. This channel was generated automatically by YouTube's video discovery system. There were also religious divisions among the trekkers themselves. between congregations. onderdanigheid. Dutch Reformed Church Gaborone. It was the foremost Protestant denomination, and—since 1892—one of the two major Reformed denominations along with the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands. Traductions en contexte de "dutch reformed church" en anglais-français avec Reverso Context : The Dutch Reformed Church played an important role in this expansion. The Dutch American churches officially separated from the Dutch churche… If you know anything please let me know, thanks The 2016 decision reversed most of the 2015 decision; local congregations are still able to decide to support same-sex unions. During the Napoleonic Wars, the British occupied the Cape Colony in 1795 to prevent the French from doing so.